Scope Cleaver Architect Designer

Wednesday, 21 January 2009 12:28

[18:03] Nasus Dumart: OK -

[18:03] Nasus Dumart: let's get started

[18:03] Nasus Dumart: Welcome to the Guest Lecture Series at Molaskey's Pub.

[18:03] Nasus Dumart: :)

[18:03] Scope Cleaver: :)[18:03] Nasus Dumart: This evening, we are honored to have Scope Cleaver, reknown Second Life® designer and architect, to offer us some insight about his work and inspiration to bring the most creative designs to digital life.

[18:04] Nasus Dumart: This will be a type-chat event. I will ask that the audience refrain from room chat until your host and Lecturer have completed their presentaions. At that time, the audience will be encouraged to participate in a lively period of Questions and Answers.

[18:04] Nasus Dumart: We will try to stick to a schedule, though, this is the maiden event of the Guest Lecture Series, so we will see how it goes with this schedule:

[18:04] Nasus Dumart: 6pSLT-6:10 - getting situated

[18:05] Nasus Dumart: 6:10-6:15 - Scope Cleaver Intro by Nasus Dumart

[18:05] Nasus Dumart: 6:15-6:30 - Scope Cleaver addresses the crowd

[18:05] Mia Kitchensink: I loved your work samples on your website Scope. Very nice!

[18:05] Nasus Dumart: 6:30-6:45 - Q&A

[18:05] Nasus Dumart: 6:45 - 7pSLT - wrap up Q&A / mix-n-mingle

[18:05] Scope Cleaver: (Thanks :) )

[18:05] Apple MacKay: if anyone want to check out Scope's website just click the sign behind them

[18:06] Apple MacKay: the chat today will be logged and reposted

[18:06] Scope Cleaver: ( Alternatively ask me for a portfolio at the end of the lecture, it's more up to date)

[18:06] Nasus Dumart: I am going to wait just a minute or two more to give people a chance to arrive and settle

[18:07] Nasus Dumart: in the mean time, if anyone takes snapshots of tonight's event, please share them with the Molaskey's Pub group on Flickr

[18:07] Apple MacKay: Hi Filthy

[18:07] Mia Kitchensink: ;D

[18:07] Filthy Fluno: hiya

[18:08] Filthy Fluno: is this gonna be in voice?

[18:08] Nasus Dumart: This is a Type=Chat event

[18:08] Filthy Fluno: kk

[18:08] Filthy Fluno: good

[18:08] Nasus Dumart: :) yeah

[18:08] Corcosman Voom: : )

[18:09] Scope Cleaver: Hello Filthy, DB

[18:09] Nasus Dumart: Ok, let's continue

[18:09] Nasus Dumart: Let me preface Scope's presentation with a story about building in Second Life®.

[18:09] Nasus Dumart: Although everyone is provided with the tools to build in Second Life, this is also a story about appreciating the skills of a talented 3D builder and designer.

[18:10] Nasus Dumart: As many of you may know, Molaskey's Pub, owned by Apple MacKay and Katydid Something, was built in March 2006, on a challenge.

[18:10] Nasus Dumart: (Pub Trivia)

[18:10] Nasus Dumart: lol

[18:10] Nasus Dumart: Apple MacKay, a very skilled and capable 3D builder, was asked to design and build an Irish pub in time for St. Patrick's Day for a developing sim.

[18:10] Nasus Dumart: That gave Apple a two week period in which to complete the site, design, textures and furniture.

[18:10] Nasus Dumart: Apple gave them a very fair price, but they balked and went with a less experienced builder at half the rate.

[18:11] Nasus Dumart: Stunned by that sim developer's poor decision, Apple challenged himself to go ahead and build the pub, in the same time frame he was given, by St. Patrick's Day.

[18:11] Nasus Dumart: Katydid provided the land, and Apple built what is now Molaskey's Pub.

[18:11] Nasus Dumart: we all watched as Apple skillfully crafted each piece

[18:11] Nasus Dumart: marveled at his ability and vision

[18:12] Nasus Dumart: ~ and we all listened to great music while he built

[18:12] Nasus Dumart: lol

[18:12] Scope Cleaver: Congrats Apple!

[18:12] Nasus Dumart: That fateful challenge is what sculpted the path we took in Second Life.

[18:12] Nasus Dumart: Once we had the establishment figured out, we formed a group and worked collaboratively to bring live music and interesting events to Second Life, using its interactive quality to bring people together in peace and harmony (sorry if that sound 'sappy' ~ lol).

[18:12] Nasus Dumart: By the way - the sim owner with the half-priced builder did not open in time. The place was no where near ready, nor designed well. Apple invited them here to show them what he accomplished in the same time frame. Their jaws hit the proverbial floor.

[18:12] Apple MacKay blushes

[18:13] Nasus Dumart: In Second Life, or any other 3D application, there is a definitive difference between a novice and expert build, but there is also the opportunity to design in wonderous ways.

[18:13] Filthy Fluno: go apple!

[18:13] Nasus Dumart: Scope Cleaver is known for his design and architecture in Second Life®. He is credited for designing and building for dozens of real world establishments in SL, including Princeton University, Autodesk, Evolutions Museum and many more. Scope works in Second Life® full time, and is booked months in advance. Come hear him speak about his skills, experiences using SL and his outlook on the future of virtual worlds.

[18:13] Nasus Dumart: Scope is featured in our upcoming book, 'The Unofficial Guide to Building Your Business in the Second Life® Virtual World'.

[18:14] Nasus Dumart: Welcome Scope!

[18:14] Nasus Dumart: ♪♫♥ Cheers!! ♥♫♪

[18:14] Apple MacKay: ♪♫ Cheers!!! ♫♪

[18:14] Scope Cleaver: Lovely, and thank you Nasus :)

[18:14] Filthy Fluno: when's the book coming out?!!

[18:14] Georgianna Blackburn: Clap Clap Clap

[18:14] Corcosman Voom applauds

[18:14] Nasus Dumart: Next month, Filthy

[18:14] Filthy Fluno: yay!

[18:14] Nasus Dumart: take it away Scope ~

[18:14] Filthy Fluno: claps for Scope!

[18:14] Scope Cleaver: Greetings everyone, I am pleased to be here tonight to talk about my experience with
architecture and design in Second Life®, it's possibilities and it's challenges.

[18:15] Scope Cleaver: Since the summer of 2006, I have been experimenting with designs and ways to combine my prim heavy linksets into interesting structures.

[18:16] Scope Cleaver: The first thing that became immediately apparent to me was that I should get used to do drafts and sketches for a building inside Second Life®, in order to avoid going through a lengthy process of translating or scanning then uploading a First Life drawing.

[18:17] Scope Cleaver: This was mostly intended to avoid being frustrated, since the limits of Second Life® and the limits of pencil and paper are worlds apart. This insight had an interesting consequence on my workflow...

[18:18] Scope Cleaver: First, it led me to develop an "on the fly" building style, a FreeStyle approach to design in SL. I could see right away, banking on the immediate visual feedback, how the building and it's point of interaction would look like and how the scale relative to my avatar would work.

[18:19] Scope Cleaver: Second, it guided me into the possibilities and limits of building and editing in SL, and how to maximize and exploit all the tools. I could then reason along with the building. "I need more prims to extend a given length here". "I should use the same texture there for optimisation". "I will probably go over the prim limit for this parcel". Things that would have been otherwise difficult if I had a rigid plan drafed and approved ahead of time.

[18:20] Scope Cleaver: One of the challenge, which was also a learning experience while designing, was to start slowly abandoning all the baggage you bring in Second Life® a priori. Beliefs about culture and people, ingrained beliefs about how space influence perception and how a building and it's people define a location.

[18:20] Nasus Dumart nods

[18:21] Scope Cleaver: Function, intention, how a space serves a purpose, those are things I constantly need to revisit as I build and design in Second Life®. This helps me be more observant, paying real attention, in how avatars interact and feel in a particular location. Does it make them feel comfortable, overpowered, free, intimidated? Does it give them a new sense of place or even home?

[18:22] Scope Cleaver: Given this world, this new world, this is a constant challgence for me and I am sure many others.

[18:23] Scope Cleaver: I find often we have to borrow techniques from interface design, and this is very hard. You have to invest forethought into user's experience, how they are likely to interact, make them forget about lag, their IM's, distractions, how to focus attention. There is much to learn about how avatars behave and think and how to get their attention. How to balance all that is the challenge.

[18:25] Scope Cleaver: Because ultimately, an interface is the most intimate thing separating a person from the world, any world. The responsibility you have to make it work, intuitive, attractive and flow well is what makes it such a difficult. I believe that designing in a virtual world is increasingly sharing things in common with interface design.

[18:25] Nasus Dumart nods

[18:26] Scope Cleaver: And this is where I think it gets interesting, because we are not limited to the conventional ways and limits we have with concrete things, we don't need levers, buttons or gears to have something happen, it's an exploration into cognition and expectations.

[18:27] Scope Cleaver: My understanding is that the goal is to establish a conversation with the avatar, manifested in it's interaction with your design. But before that happens they need to be in familiar territory, they need to understand context, this is important for meaning and understanding to occur. Only then can a designer evolve and understand this world and it's avatars better.

[18:28] Scope Cleaver: And I am not sure I have much time left to talk about the future, but maybe we can touch on what I think about that in the Q&A... :)

[18:28] Nasus Dumart: sure - take a few min

[18:28] Nasus Dumart: or - we can open the floor now to some questions

[18:28] Nasus Dumart: I have a question -

[18:29] Nasus Dumart: how many structures in SL have you done - and can you offer SLurls?

[18:29] Scope Cleaver: I think the bulk of the research will have to be into how different we perceive things while in front of the screen, how things gets transformed, presense, scale, you know how big or small things appear to us, how much distance we think we're covering when we're flying.

[18:29] Scope Cleaver: Thank you for being here today and thank you Nasus for letting me speak. :)

[18:29] Nasus Dumart: It is our pleasure.

[18:29] Nasus Dumart: :)

[18:29] Nasus Dumart: ♪♫♥ Cheers!! ♥♫♪

[18:29] Scope Cleaver: I am sorry to say I have lost count but I should probably compile that and bring my portfolio up to date :)

[18:30] Nasus Dumart: lol - ok

[18:30] Scope Cleaver: Regretably there are many that aren't inworld anymore

[18:30] Nasus Dumart: yes - I would love to have a field trip to your builds

[18:30] Scope Cleaver: I do have copies in inventory for the occasional curious :)

[18:30] Nasus Dumart: oh - I just heard about that

[18:30] Mia Kitchensink: How long were you in sl before you started tinkering with builds?

[18:30] Nasus Dumart: Princeton, you mean?

[18:31] Scope Cleaver: Mia: I started in SL when Scope was born, (January 21st 2006)

[18:31] Nasus Dumart: OMG

[18:31] Nasus Dumart: it's Your REZ DAY?

[18:31] Scope Cleaver: I started building seriously many months later I'd say mainly during the summer

[18:31] Georgianna Blackburn: happy rez day

[18:31] Nasus Dumart: whoa!

[18:31] Design Siemens: hi mia

[18:31] Chestnut Rau: Happy Rez Day Scope!

[18:31] Scope Cleaver: (I just realised lol thank you )

[18:31] Nasus Dumart: Happy Rez Day!

[18:31] Scope Cleaver: So that would be 3 years now

[18:31] Apple MacKay: wow

[18:31] Nasus Dumart: wowzers!

[18:31] Fakiliza Turbo: that's like a hundred...

[18:31] Apple MacKay: Happy RezDay Scope

[18:31] Scope Cleaver: I'd say a solid 2 and some months solid of building

[18:32] Scope Cleaver: But I wasn't immediately attracted to it at first.

[18:32] Apple MacKay: what brought you in?

[18:32] Scope Cleaver: Thanks

[18:32] Apple MacKay: to sl

[18:32] Apple MacKay: and then building

[18:32] Scope Cleaver: Well I had spotted a pretty nice parcel... in Wetheral which is btw a really good spot to be on the main land :)

[18:33] Scope Cleaver: I own about 1/4 of the sim there, and was toying with the idea of building a store and start designing furniture.

[18:33] Scope Cleaver: Then I got a small contract for an auditorium

[18:34] Scope Cleaver: (which I still have in my inventory btw) :)

[18:34] Corcosman Voom: : )

[18:34] Scope Cleaver: And I thought it might be interesting in doing this for a living.

[18:34] Scope Cleaver: I didn't mind being in front of my computer all day, I really like SL.

[18:34] Apple MacKay: the old builder's buddy scripts I bet you used

[18:34] Nasus Dumart: did you pursue contracts? or was your talent recognized first?

[18:35] Scope Cleaver: Apple: Absolutely and have comissioned a lot of custom scripts as well.

[18:35] Nasus Dumart: I mean - how did you land work?

[18:35] Scope Cleaver: I did at first yes, while also building prefabs, I was in the mood of looking to develop

[18:35] Nasus Dumart: :)

[18:35] Chestnut Rau: Scope have you done any work in OpenSim? What are your thoughts about some of the other worlds?

[18:36] Scope Cleaver: Even then it was difficult to be recognized as I wasn't exactly an oldbie, I mean 2006 is still a few years after SL started, so there was already a market.

[18:36] Apple MacKay: like Barnesworth

[18:36] Scope Cleaver: Chestnut: Like I tell my friends, I am a virtual world lover, I happen to like SL and think it's the best thing out there now, but I am constantly open and on the lookout for the next best thing.

[18:37] Chestnut Rau: grins

[18:37] Soen Eber: Do you do any of your own scripting? How much of your work is "roll your own" as opposed to leveraging other's work?

[18:37] Scope Cleaver: But remember, I do this professionally, so my first priority is consistency, stability, etc

[18:37] Scope Cleaver: I am aware that it's debatable whether SL is all that, but... :)

[18:37] Chestnut Rau: which has been a problem of late, as we were just saying earlier

[18:37] Apple MacKay: I have seen a few of the early scripters already start exploring openSim and are making great strides

[18:38] Scope Cleaver: Soen: I don't particularly enjoy scripting, I do think like a programmer though, I know what I want and how it should be done, I just don't get my hands dirty, and I think code doesn't look too stylish :)

[18:38] Nasus Dumart: :)

[18:39] Chestnut Rau: Can you get back to Filthy's question? I was wondering the same thing....How do you understand and measure how avatars feel in a space?

[18:39] Soen Eber: *nods* you can do some serious magic with code, but it can take weeks or months :(

[18:39] Scope Cleaver: Apple: yes I've been following some of that and I am observing whats going on closely both in and out of SL

[18:39] Apple MacKay: can you eloborate on the focused end-user direction/experience you touched on earlier

[18:40] Scope Cleaver: Chestnut: Yes, mostly when I am at an event happening in a build I made, for instance a live music show, I observe how people move around, if they congregate in groups, if there is anything blocking them, what they say about how they feel inside the building.

[18:40] Scope Cleaver: in the case of a building I made for Princeton that was also used for SL5B, I paid attention how people would use it and how they would deploy their exhibit in and around it.

[18:41] Chestnut Rau: do people surprise you a lot?

[18:41] Scope Cleaver: Apple: Are you refering on my comments about how to get avatars, attention?

[18:41] Scope Cleaver: Chestnut: Sometimes it's not even their fault :)

[18:41] Chestnut Rau: laughs

[18:41] Scope Cleaver: But yes, sometimes the unexpected happen

[18:42] Nasus Dumart: Who are some of the other builders in SL with whom you have collaborated on special projects?

[18:42] Scope Cleaver: I try to listen when that happens.

[18:42] Scope Cleaver: I think it's subtle and easy to miss on.

[18:42] Soen Eber: What have you noticed about how people interact in a group? Are there any rules and principles you can pass along?

[18:42] Scope Cleaver: Compare the person earlier who commented about a spotlight here.... it's more informative than it looks on the surface.

[18:42] Apple MacKay: 18:25] Scope Cleaver: Because ultimately, an interface is the most intimate thing separating a person from the world, any world. The responsibility you have to make it work, intuitive, attractive and flow well is what makes it such a difficult. I believe that designing in a virtual world is increasingly sharing things in common with interface design.

[18:43] Scope Cleaver: Nasus: i have worked with a dear friend of me when well known architect in Sl, Keystone Bouchard on a few projects.

[18:43] Nasus Dumart: yes - I know Keystone - wonderful architect.

[18:43] Scope Cleaver: I also have worked with builder, terraformer and artist Poid Mahovlich and Persis Trilling on many Princeton projects.

[18:43] Apple MacKay: ;)

[18:44] Scope Cleaver: Yes Apple? can you rephrase your question in light of that please?

[18:44] Apple MacKay: yes

[18:45] Fakiliza Turbo: i like how you use the term "interface design", scope. much of what is built in sl is made to mimic the 'real world', but doesn't necessarily look real here. what advice would you offer a builder wanting to make their own version of 'real' in sl?

[18:45] Apple MacKay: driving the user to a desired outcome or purpose seems to be what you were referring to
[18:45] Apple MacKay: I was wondering if you could elaborate opn that

[18:45] Scope Cleaver: Okay yes sure.

[18:46] Scope Cleaver: I was trying to speak about how interface design is more and more what I aim for, like the kind of thinking that goes into a portable audio player for instance.

[18:46] Scope Cleaver: it has function, and the interface's job is to make it easy and intuitive to the user to get to what they want.

[18:46] Soen Eber: What kind of compromise do you have to make between realism and usability? Or does realism=usability, generally speaking?

[18:46] Scope Cleaver: I think building and design in SL can serve the same purpose, help the user get around what they want.

[18:47] Apple MacKay: ic

[18:47] Scope Cleaver: Soen: yes great question, I touched a bit on that earlier when speaking about a conversation you establish with users, how they need a context something they already understand to make sense of the rest.

[18:48] Scope Cleaver: But I belive it's not static it's evolving, there will be a time where we'll be able to have really far out things and people will get it right away and know about the conventions.

[18:48] Chestnut Rau: I sure hope so Scope

[18:48] Scope Cleaver: If you gave an ipod to someone 50 years ago, they probably wouldn't get it, no matter how well you design your interface.

[18:48] Scope Cleaver: Because you have so much to take into account in terms of context, what you assume they already know, etc.

[18:49] MenuBar Memorial: Ever since the early days of Macintosh computer connectivity/networking, I had envisioned the desktop finder itself would eventually evolve into a 3-D style world - your reference to SL architecture as an extension of a UI seems complimentary to that concept - what do you see in the future?

18:49] Scope Cleaver: So the compormise is a question of balance and I constantly need to *guess* and experiment, sometimes for the better or worst.

[18:50] Scope Cleaver: MenuBar: Yes, I think thats the main direction I see things going, it may be a terminological debate in the end, i.e. is this an interface, is this a building? does it really matter?

[18:51] Scope Cleaver: What I am pretty sure of, is that designers in virtual worlds have a lot more to gain from borrowing principles from interface design than they do in RL about concrete things.

[18:51] MenuBar Memorial nods

[18:51] Scope Cleaver: Because the window through which you see the world is so limited and it begs for a way to interact better.

[18:52] Scope Cleaver: I think LL are faced with the same dilemmas and problems when it comes to interface design.

[18:52] Scope Cleaver: I predict it's going to be a growing problem as our virtual worlds gets more articulated and complex.

[18:53] Scope Cleaver: As to whether the world we see here, will eventually become like an operating system, or like a desktop like you said MenuBar, all bets are off :)

[18:53] MenuBar Memorial: we can only hope ;-)

[18:54] Scope Cleaver: Anybody I forgot to answer or any other questions?

[18:54] Soen Eber: I guess in a sense its all documentation, but without words

[18:54] Mia Kitchensink: Do you have a favorite project?

[18:54] Scope Cleaver: Mia: thats too difficult a question, I would have to subdivide it into: which was the most fun building, which was the most fun living in, seeing people in, etc

[18:55] Mia Kitchensink: I bet it is rewarding in alot of ways.

[18:55] Soen Eber: What do most builders do that get in the way of people using their builds effectively, that you've noticed but doesn't really register with most builders?

[18:55] Scope Cleaver: I would be biased toward my more recent projects, but looking back, I had a great time and good learning experience in my earlier builds as well.

[18:55] Nasus Dumart: SL offers a 'sense of place' - the places you've created are some of the most beautiful and inspiring 'places' in all of Second Life®

[18:55] Nasus Dumart: :)

[18:55] Natalina DeVinna: ok do you have a dream- project in mind?

[18:56] Scope Cleaver: Soen: The answer to that is the same as the one I give about what I think makes a great design, which is, when I get around something or use it, if I tell myself "oh nice he/she *thought* about this" then it's a good design.

[18:56] Apple MacKay: I have one last question... I was following the build of the BlackFriars theatre and noticed the heavy use of sculpted prims, created in MODO, uv textured, and imported into SL... do you see yourself going in that direction as well?

[18:56] Scope Cleaver: Nasus: thank you very much.

[18:56] Nasus Dumart: yvw

[18:57] Scope Cleaver: Natalina: yes I have got that question before, a while back, and I think I said, something like a think tank or reseach center.

[18:57] Natalina DeVinna: ok.. may be I miss it.. ty ;)

[18:57] Scope Cleaver: Apple: yes I am exploring this right now and trying to find efficient ways to import, mostly streamlining the workflow and minimizing texture lag.

[18:58] Scope Cleaver: Oh it was asked a by a friend in an interview months ago.

[18:58] Scope Cleaver: But I like the idea of building a space in which avatars do research.

[18:59] Chestnut Rau: You should hook up with the IBM folks ;)

[18:59] MenuBar Memorial: The Ivory Towers need a redesign hehe ;-)

[18:59] Scope Cleaver: Maybe surrounded by all sorts of crazy and unique equiment that would made them look hard at work and somewhat like mad scientist... working on the next big thing :)

[18:59] Soen Eber: I'd settle for streaming video that actually worked :P

[18:59] Scope Cleaver: Yes well I think Jessica Qin is already doing an amazing job there.

[19:00] Chestnut Rau: She is

[19:00] Design Siemens: how about a stonger IDE inworld for testing scripts?

[19:00] MenuBar Memorial: haven't been there in a while sorry

[19:00] MenuBar Memorial: I'll have to see what she's done

[19:00] Scope Cleaver: Sound interesting... :)

[19:01] Scope Cleaver: Contrary to what you said at the start Nasus, I am not booked months in advanced like you said anymore.

[19:01] Scope Cleaver: I am free and available as we speak! :)

[19:01] Corcosman Voom: : ))

[19:01] Nasus Dumart brushes off the cyber-dust

[19:01] Scope Cleaver: After taking a big break :)

[19:01] Mia Kitchensink: That is good to know. So you take on projects large and small?

[19:01] Nasus Dumart: lol - oh!

[19:01] Scope Cleaver: Yes, specially the huge ones.

[19:01] Apple MacKay: wb Nas

[19:01] Scope Cleaver: heheh :)

[19:02] Mia Kitchensink: That is nice to know.

[19:02] Nasus Dumart: when I interviewed you several months ago - you were very busy

[19:02] Scope Cleaver: Yes, the problem is that things change very quickly in second life.

[19:02] Nasus Dumart: glad you had the time to come visit us this evening, Scope

[19:02] Scope Cleaver: Projects, even buildings disappear within days.

[19:02] Nasus Dumart: we have reached the top of the hour

[19:02] Chestnut Rau: I imagine the economy is hurting

[19:02] Chestnut Rau: all of us

[19:03] Scope Cleaver: There is no question that the projects we had back in 2006-2007 are of a different scale than those we have today.

[19:03] Scope Cleaver: Thanks Nasus, I hope I answered most people, if I forgot anyone, don't be shy to IM me and even share friendship, thanks.

[19:03] Nasus Dumart: Ok, Thank you Scope

[19:03] Apple MacKay: Thank You Scope

[19:03] Chestnut Rau: Thank you so much Scope

[19:03] Nasus Dumart: Thank you everyone for coming tonight

[19:03] Chestnut Rau: and thanks Nasus for doing this

[19:03] Scope Cleaver: Most welcome, thank you for being here.

[19:04] Mia Kitchensink: Very interesting.

[19:04] Corcosman Voom: Nassus, Apple, Scope..thank you for an intersting discussion

[19:04] Nasus Dumart: we are going to have your friend, Keystone here next Tuesday evening

[19:04] Fakiliza Turbo: thanks everyone. thank you mr cleaver.

[19:04] Nasus Dumart: hope you all come back

[19:04] Soen Eber: Very imformative

[19:04] Natalina DeVinna: Thank you Scope... it was interesting

[19:04] Nasus Dumart: :)

[19:04] Scope Cleaver: Ah beautiful!