Guest Lecture Series - Kiwini Oe - Chat Log

Tuesday, 24 March 2009 12:21

Guest Lecture Series - Kiwini Oe - Fusion of Technology

March 24, 2009 6pSLT

Molaskey's Pub, Wichi, SL

[18:09] Nasus Dumart: Welcome to the Guest Lecture Series at Molaskey's Pub!

[18:09] Nasus Dumart: Tonight's topic is 'Fusion of Technology'.

[18:09] Nasus Dumart: Better known as a 'mashup', fusion of technology best describes how tonight's guest has developed a cutting edge digital marketing company based on a passion for technology.

[18:10] Nasus Dumart: According to Wikipedia, a 'mashup' is a web application hybrid.

[18:10] Nasus Dumart: 'Mashup' originally referred to the practice in pop music (notably hip-hop) of producing a new song by mixing two or more existing pieces.

[18:10] Nasus Dumart: In technology, a mashup is a web application that combines data from more than one source into a single integrated tool

[18:10] Nasus Dumart: An example is the use of cartographic data from Google Maps to add location information to real-estate data from Craigslist, thereby creating a new and distinct web service that was not originally provided by either source.

[18:10] Nasus Dumart: Creating a mashup between the virtual world and the real world is something we are just beginning to wrap our heads around.

[18:11] Nasus Dumart: Steve Nelson is the EVP, Chief Strategy Officer for Clear Ink, a digital Marketing company based in California.

[18:11] Nasus Dumart: Known in Second Life® as Kiwini Oe, Steve has a long history of working in 3D and online business.

[18:11] Nasus Dumart: He has advised some rather large corporate names in the area of emerging technologies, marketing and business communication.

[18:11] Nasus Dumart: Aside from his business achievements, Steve / Kiwini carries his enthusiasm for technology and human culture into his personal goals, too.

[18:11] Nasus Dumart: When interviewing Kiwini Oe for our book, 'The Unofficial Guide to Building Your Business in the Second Life® Virtual World', I expected to hear about his famous SL projects, like The U.S. Capitol Hill, 'NBC's The Office' and Autodesk, which I did, but I also learned about a fascinating project of his called 'The Feel Fine Project'.

[18:12] Nasus Dumart: The feel fine project, on Clear Ink Island, is a pretty neat exhibit of technical ability. As Kiwini explained, Its purely art. It builds on the idea from http://www.wefeelfine.org using their apis so the purpose in SL is the same as at http://www.wefeelfine.org/mission.html.

[18:12] Nasus Dumart: The Feel Fine project on Clear Ink in Second Life® provides a window to the outside world, and a demonstration of how external APIs can be fed into SL. There are over 5000 feelings in the database. Theyre added to daily. Kiwini admits, it's a bit addictive.

[18:12] Nasus Dumart: This interesting and informative lecture will begin shortly. Let me just remind the audience of the structure of this event.

[18:12] Nasus Dumart: This will be a type-chat event. I will ask that the audience to refrain from room chat until your host and Lecturer have completed their presentations.

[18:13] Nasus Dumart: At that time, the audience will be encouraged to participate in a lively period of Questions and Answers.

[18:13] Filthy Fluno: nasus does the best intros in the biz! this sounds awesome!

[18:13] Nasus Dumart: Tonights lecture will go according to a schedule. As moderator, I will give prompts as to when we will proceed. This transcript, including audience participation, will be made available on http://Molaskeys-Pub.com immediately following the lecture

[18:13] Nasus Dumart: (thanks, Filthy)

[18:13] Nasus Dumart: Please use this time to invite others to join you. You may offer this SLurl as a landing spot - http://tiny.cc/XPgAi

[18:13] Nasus Dumart: If you are taking any snapshots of tonight's event, please share them with the Molaskey's Pub Group on Flickr at http://tiny.cc/AULDo

[18:14] Nasus Dumart: We will begin shortly. (this is where we would take a commercial break, if we had one!)

[18:14] Nasus Dumart is Offline

[18:15] Apple MacKay: Nasus will brb

[18:15] Kiwini Oe: uh oh

[18:15] Apple MacKay: 1 sec

[18:15] Nasus Dumart is Online

[18:15] Kiwini Oe: I do that during commercial breaks, too

[18:15] Kiwini Oe: oh, she's back!

[18:15] Nasus Dumart brushes off the cyber dust - cough cough

[18:15] Chestnut Rau: Nasus needs a new computer that doesn't crash all the time

[18:16] Kiwini Oe: I think there's a tip jar around here somewhere

[18:16] Apple MacKay: heh

[18:16] Nasus Dumart: yes, Chestnut - so true

[18:16] Nasus Dumart: Okay, let's begin!

[18:16] Jimmy Wexhome: w00t

[18:16] Kiwini Oe: Alright - thanks for inviting me here and thanks everyone for coming tonight.

[18:16] Nasus Dumart: Many, if not all of Clear Ink's projects in Second Life® involve real world products / companies entering Second Life®.

[18:17] Nasus Dumart: wait -

[18:17] Nasus Dumart: there's more

[18:17] Nasus Dumart: lol

[18:17] Kiwini Oe: Oh, the other let's begin :-)

[18:17] Kiwini Oe: Tell me more!

[18:17] Nasus Dumart: They built U.S. Capitol Hill for the RL opening ceremony of the 110th Congress, they created a virtual showroom for Kenmore appliances and have participated in TED conference in both the real world and virtual world.

[18:17] Nasus Dumart: All along, Steve Nelson of Clear Ink, known in SL as Kiwini Oe, has been building the link between worlds.

[18:17] Nasus Dumart: In a sense, mixed reality is a mashup of the real and virtual world, but the way in which Kiwini is able to fuse them is truly fascinating.

[18:17] Nasus Dumart: When I first met Kiwini, I must admit, I wasn't sure what to expect.

[18:17] Nasus Dumart: I was referred to him by some other professionals around Second Life®, and he agreed to speak with me for the book.

[18:18] Nasus Dumart: I knew he had worked with Keystone Bouchard and others on exciting projects, but he held a relatively low profile for the caliber of work he had done.

[18:18] Nasus Dumart: Once we began our conversation, I was soon at ease and realized he had his hands on many projects, real and virtual.

[18:18] Nasus Dumart: It is not that often you will find a professional with the command of a complex life online fused with the ease and enjoyment of the quality of life in the real world.

[18:18] Nasus Dumart: Steve / Kiwini not only has impressed us with his professionalism, but also with his warm personality, as if he is enjoying every minute of a wonderful, explorative life, both real and virtual.

[18:18] Nasus Dumart: Steve was on a short list of professionals we asked to read and endorse our manuscript, just prior to going to print.

[18:19] Nasus Dumart: His endorsement reads; "With a wide and often contradictory stream of reports, news and opinion on what works and doesn't work in Second Life®, it's good to have a book that addresses conducting business in enough depth. Because of its focus, this book is a great resource."

[18:19] Kiwini Oe: amen

[18:19] Nasus Dumart: This quote can be found printed on the back cover of our book.

[18:19] Nasus Dumart: Please welcome the wise and wonderous, Kiwini Oe ~

[18:19] Nasus Dumart: ♪♫♥ Cheers!! ♥♫♪

[18:19] Kiwini Oe: again, thanks!

[18:19] Apple MacKay applauds

[18:19] Kiwini Oe: My story has three threads:

[18:19] Kiwini Oe: What I've been doing all along that ultimately brought me to Second Life

[18:20] Kiwini Oe: A bit about what Clear Ink has done in Second Life

[18:20] Kiwini Oe: What I'm currently interested in and doing in Second Life fusing technology etc.

[18:20] Kiwini Oe: Feel free to interrupt with questions, catcalls or gasps. Nasus will edit them out of the transcript, and I have you all on mute. :-)

[18:20] Nasus Dumart: lol

[18:20] Nasus Dumart: true
[18:20] Kiwini Oe: I've been doing animated 3D graphics since 1978, and Internetty things since around 1981.

[18:20] Kiwini Oe: I've been doing mashups since about 1983 (they werent called that then!) and am still using a Mac since 1984.

[18:21] Kiwini Oe: I've done 3D, in projects and play, on and off since then.

[18:21] Kiwini Oe: In 1993 I created games for my kids using the same toolset that was used to create Myst: Hypercard, Quicktime, Stratavision.

[18:21] Kiwini Oe: In 1996 some former Novell colleagues were doing an avatar-based virtual world called OnLive (see http://is.gd/odLr ) - that was my first multi-user vw

[18:21] Kiwini Oe: I spent some time playing around there and getting it - but it was ahead of its time.

[18:22] Kiwini Oe: In 1995 I was a cofounder of Clear Ink, a web marketing and application company.

[18:22] Nasus Dumart nods

[18:22] Kiwini Oe: We've had several iterations since then, and are still doing that sort of thing.

[18:22] Kiwini Oe: We advise our clients on how to apply emerging technologies to marketing and business communications.

[18:22] Kiwini Oe: Second Life has been one of those emerging techs.

[18:22] Kiwini Oe: A few things brought us to Second Life:

[18:23] Kiwini Oe: I saw Philip Rosedale talk at the Web 2.0 Summit in Oct. 2004, but it took me until Sept. 2005 to get an account in Second Life.

[18:23] Kiwini Oe: I have known Robin Harper since about 1992 at FCB and then Maxis, and she helped to recruit Clear Ink as a developer.

[18:23] Kiwini Oe: And about that time, Autodesk was a client of ours that was showing interest in working with Linden Lab (and vice versa). So in we went.

[18:23] Kiwini Oe: I took a lot of time at first to learn to be an avatar and socialize, get some first land, take classes, shop, meet people and help newbies get oriented the business part came after lots of time in-world.

[18:24] Nasus Dumart nods

[18:24] Filthy Fluno: nods too

[18:24] Kiwini Oe: I'm not sure that's the usual situation

[18:24] Nasus Dumart: there's nothing usual

[18:24] Kiwini Oe: My partner TROI Timtam - to my great surprise - got in world about 6 months later and has worked with me on a lot of our projects.

[18:24] Kiwini Oe: She's on the phone with her sister right now. In about an hour she'll ask me when the lecture starts

[18:24] Nasus Dumart: hahahaha

[18:25] Kiwini Oe: Second Life has never been a major part of Clear Ink's revenue stream, though it certainly has been part of our publicity stream!

[18:25] Filthy Fluno: lol

[18:25] Kiwini Oe: We had at one time considered spinning off a subsidiary dedicated to SL, but we never did.

[18:25] Kiwini Oe: We usually worked on one interesting project at a time Nasus has mentioned several of them, and Id be happy to elaborate during Q&A.

[18:25] Kiwini Oe: Bell Sports - our first project was a simple sponsorship at a SL racetrack. For 200L$ a week we put Bell signs up at the track.

[18:25] Kiwini Oe: Autodesk - An island to promote Autodesk during their Autodesk University user conference, and beyond. We managed events and presentations on this island.

[18:26] Kiwini Oe: That's also when I started mashing things up in Second Life

[18:26] Kiwini Oe: As we were trying to figure out the import/export problem that still plagues architects here

[18:26] Kiwini Oe: Capitol Hill - we created the Capitol Hill region, originally to host one event (the opening of the 110th Congress), but have kept it open now for over 2 years.

[18:26] Nasus Dumart is Offline

[18:26] Nasus Dumart is Online

[18:26] Kiwini Oe: That's where I spend a lot of spare cycles now

[18:26] Filthy Fluno: nods for nasus

[18:27] Kiwini Oe: Well, Nasus, at least you're a quick relog!

[18:27] Kiwini Oe: Kenmore - We did a deal to create and sell Kenmore appliances at established SL stores. We created some good appliances along with Mash Mandala, but Sears pulled the plug when they decided to have their own stores, which never really happened.

[18:27] Nasus Dumart: heheh - yep that's from experience

[18:27] Kiwini Oe: That was one of those projects that was along the right idea - trying to get a corporation to integrate more with the community

[18:28] Kiwini Oe: but there was a culture collision at headquarters

[18:28] Kiwini Oe: TED Conference - I taught a SL class at TED and we created a virtual Monterey to stream TED live into SL. I then did a demo on the stage at TED that had the TED audience watching the SL audience watching the TED audience... We also managed subsequent events on this island.

[18:28] Nasus Dumart: oo - that must have been really exciting

[18:28] Kiwini Oe: Cameron Sinclair built one of his Architecture for Humanity houses there that they were designing for Katrina relief

[18:29] Kiwini Oe: Global Condo Center - an island promoting high-end condo developments worldwide

[18:29] Kiwini Oe: It's still there, I think, but fairly vacant these days

[18:29] Kiwini Oe: The CEO wanted to build the biggest condo tower in Second Life, but we talked him out of it

[18:29] Nasus Dumart: lol - good!

[18:29] Filthy Fluno: lol

[18:29] Kiwini Oe: Because someone could easily build tallest plus one.

[18:29] Nasus Dumart: hahaha

[18:30] Kiwini Oe: Pall Corp We prototyped a custom equipment configuration system for this pharmaceutical manufacturing company

[18:30] Kiwini Oe: This was an interesting project in autoscripting lots of parts that could then talk to their counterparts in the real world

[18:30] Kiwini Oe: Marriott we prototyped a hotel staff training system that stiched machinima together with a Flash wrapper

[18:30] Kiwini Oe: They originally wanted to do staff training in SL

[18:31] Kiwini Oe: but we suggested that it would take 20 hours to learn SL for someone to spend an hour learning how to be nice to guest

[18:31] Kiwini Oe: guests

[18:31] Chestnut Rau giggles

[18:31] Filthy Fluno: wooo hooo!

[18:31] Chestnut Rau: when did Moe's become a strip club

[18:31] Filthy Fluno: now this is what i call a presentation!

[18:31] Filthy Fluno: lol

[18:31] Filthy Fluno: kiwi... all these projects sounds awesome man! i will check out those that i still can. I know there is so much artful and creative elements to doing all this in SL, but have you had the chance to work with any big RL museums or galleries?

[18:31] Kiwini Oe: But the hypbrid of machinima and flash was an interesting solution

[18:32] Kiwini Oe: Linden Lab HQ - a four-sim headquarters with individual and group work areas and conference grounds patterned after national parks and other landmarks

[18:32] Avatar ejected.

[18:32] Nasus Dumart is Offline

[18:32] Filthy Fluno: sorry to barge in.. you did say we could correct?

[18:32] Kiwini Oe: ....

[18:32] Apple MacKay: yup

[18:32] Apple MacKay: Nas crashed just as that happened

[18:32] Nasus Dumart is Online

[18:33] Gilly Gully: hm

[18:33] Nasus Dumart: darn crashies - did I miss anything while I was gone?

[18:33] Apple MacKay: yeah

[18:33] Filthy Fluno: no

[18:33] Gilly Gully: only a naked lap dancer

[18:33] Chestnut Rau: laughs hard

[18:33] Filthy Fluno: lol

[18:33] Apple MacKay: lol

[18:33] Gilly Gully: lol

[18:33] Filthy Fluno: we lost kiwi

[18:33] Nasus Dumart: lol - I know - I saw from Apple's screen!

[18:33] Apple MacKay: where'd kiwi go... crashed?

[18:33] Nasus Dumart: oh - Kiwini - come back Kiwini!

[18:34] Filthy Fluno: tosses popcorn kernels at eshi

[18:34] Nasus Dumart: I really DO need a new 'puter, Apple

[18:34] Apple MacKay: Kiwi said he's using a mac from 1984

[18:35] Nasus Dumart: LOL

[18:35] Nasus Dumart: not the SAME!

[18:35] Nasus Dumart: lol

[18:35] Filthy Fluno: yea.. he did say that

[18:35] Apple MacKay: ;)

[18:35] Nasus Dumart: Well - When Kiwini relogs - we shall open the floor to Q&A

[18:35] Filthy Fluno: k

[18:36] Filthy Fluno: i'll copy and paste mine

[18:36] Nasus Dumart: good thinking

[18:36] Apple MacKay: your what?

[18:36] Filthy Fluno: my question

[18:36] Apple MacKay: ah

[18:36] Filthy Fluno: pay attention man

[18:36] Mia Kitchensink: lol

[18:36] Apple MacKay: trying to deal with strippers and crashing Avies

[18:36] Nasus Dumart: these lectures sure have become informal

[18:36] Apple MacKay: and chat logs

[18:36] Apple MacKay: gimme a break man

[18:37] Nasus Dumart: WB, Kiwini

[18:37] Filthy Fluno: ok... here's a part of my kit kat bar

[18:37] Kiwini Oe: sheesh

[18:37] Apple MacKay: WB Kiwini

[18:37] Nasus Dumart: yep - tell me about it -

[18:37] Filthy Fluno: wb kiwi

[18:37] Nasus Dumart: so - Kiwini - If you are ready - we will begin Q&A

[18:38] Apple MacKay: Kiwini you still on that mac from 1984?

[18:38] Kiwini Oe: ok, let me see if I can do this withoug so many notes!

[18:38] Filthy Fluno: apple IIe?

[18:38] Kiwini Oe: We did the Linden Lab HQ

[18:38] Kiwini Oe: a 4-sim locatoin for offices, groups, and conference groudnsw that ewre patterened after Nat'l parks and landmarks

[18:38] Nasus Dumart: Yes! you were working on that when I interviewed you

[18:39] Kiwini Oe: and then NBC called us up to do the office

[18:39] Kiwini Oe: that was at the end of a week when we were in the midst of the Newt Gingrich event

[18:39] Kiwini Oe: we had had two democratic congresspeople in SL

[18:39] Nasus Dumart: Woot!

[18:39] Kiwini Oe: and Newt wanted to do a workshop there

[18:39] Nasus Dumart: Newt!

[18:39] Kiwini Oe: then NBC called and asked if we could bring Dwight and Jim in to Second Life

[18:40] Kiwini Oe: create avatars, film it, the whole thing

[18:40] Nasus Dumart: :)

[18:40] Kiwini Oe: As soon as I said yes, the producer took head shots of Rainn Wilson and John Krasinski on the set and emailed them to me

[18:40] Kiwini Oe: along with hand scrawled storyboards

[18:41] Kiwini Oe: A couple notes before Q&A

[18:41] Nasus Dumart: wow - the Office is efficient!

[18:41] Kiwini Oe: most of what I do now in SL is in the area of mashups with RL data and info

[18:41] Filthy Fluno: kiwi... all these projects sounds awesome man! i will check out those that i still can. I know there is so much artful and creative elements to doing all this in SL, but have you had the chance to work with any big RL museums or galleries?

[18:41] Kiwini Oe: I still build a structure or gadget or two

[18:41] Kiwini Oe: I haven't worked with museums/galleries

[18:42] Kiwini Oe: I have a friend - Starman Heron - who I am helping do walkthroughs

[18:42] Kiwini Oe: I think you're connected with that?

[18:42] Filthy Fluno: with what?

[18:42] Kiwini Oe: Star Journeys

[18:42] Filthy Fluno: oh yes!

[18:42] Filthy Fluno: that's some crazyness over there!

[18:43] Kiwini Oe: Not really a project of ours, but I've known Starman for ages in RL

[18:43] Kiwini Oe: Some of my mashups:

[18:43] Kiwini Oe: a system for viewing archicture served from Autodesk freewheel into SL

[18:43] Kiwini Oe: INterfaces to the Linden Lab "Love machine", Jira, etc.

[18:43] Kiwini Oe: Lots of APIs from government data using Sunlight Labs, etc

[18:44] Kiwini Oe: The newest is a thing that rains down $100 bills on you inthe Capitol

[18:44] Nasus Dumart: oo -

[18:44] Kiwini Oe: with the names of the biggest government contractors

[18:44] Kiwini Oe: and the size of the bills depends on that

[18:44] Nasus Dumart: Does the Treaury know about that?

[18:44] Nasus Dumart: jk

[18:44] Kiwini Oe: Also one that rains down the words most used by congress that day

[18:45] Nasus Dumart: wow

[18:45] Kiwini Oe: For you mac folks, I created a "print to Second Life" option for the print dialog

[18:45] Kiwini Oe: so anything you could print to a printer or PDF

[18:45] Kiwini Oe: will get printed to a printer I made in SL

[18:45] Nasus Dumart: THAT is realy cool

[18:45] Kiwini Oe: I made a picture frame that you drop snapshots/textures on

[18:45] Filthy Fluno: i gotta jet. great great speaker. thanks guys.. bye mia, apple nas, kiwi

[18:45] Kiwini Oe: and they show up on your Facebook

[18:45] Mia Kitchensink: ;D

[18:45] Nasus Dumart: alrighty Filthy - tc

[18:45] Kiwini Oe: Bye Filthy!thanks for coming

[18:46] Kiwini Oe: I've done the theater of feelings Nasus talked about

[18:46] Apple MacKay: Question: You stated earlier you were trying to figure out the import/export problem that still plagues architects here... since the recent developments in opensim do you feel LL needs to add that capability to keep relevent?

[18:46] Kiwini Oe: it's on Clear Ink island

[18:46] Kiwini Oe: and one for twitter for the capitol

[18:46] Kiwini Oe: Well, when Opensim has the critical mass to support the community as well as the platform, that will be good

[18:47] Kiwini Oe: The import/export is there in opensim, as well as other places like Wonderland from Sun

[18:47] Kiwini Oe: but the learning curve and entry barriers are still past SL's

[18:47] Kiwini Oe: I think I've yakked about most of my mashup projects

[18:48] Kiwini Oe: a flavor of them at least

[18:48] Nasus Dumart: heheheh

[18:48] Kiwini Oe: anytime something new comes out with an RL interface

[18:48] Kiwini Oe: I try to see how I can hook it into SL

[18:48] Kiwini Oe: for data visualization

[18:48] Kiwini Oe: or play

[18:48] Nasus Dumart: :)

[18:48] Kiwini Oe: We aren't really doing that much commercial as Clear Ink right now in Second Life

[18:49] Kiwini Oe: but we still have our HQ, and still dole out advice to our RL clients

[18:49] Kiwini Oe: And we're keeping Capitol Hill open for the community

[18:49] Apple MacKay: I was going to ask if you feel SL is just really a great sandbox for this type of work?

[18:49] Kiwini Oe: and expect to keep it up to date with the new gov

[18:49] Nasus Dumart: How do they view SL - still looking for the number of hits like websites? or do they understand the interactive quality of SL?

[18:50] Kiwini Oe: I think it's a great sandbox for this because of rapid prototyping

[18:50] Kiwini Oe: however

[18:50] Kiwini Oe: I usually have to write some intermediary programs on servers outside of SL

[18:50] Kiwini Oe: because LSL doesn't have rich enough data translation capabilities

[18:50] Kiwini Oe: I won't get too geeky, but things like XML parsing, etc

[18:51] Kiwini Oe: But still, you can throw together things very quickly

[18:51] Apple MacKay: how is the latency of that data coming into SL, how close to realtime have you ben able to get?

[18:51] Kiwini Oe: Well, most of the data sources I've mashed up haven't been that time critical

[18:52] Kiwini Oe: Like some people have done for industrial control

[18:52] Kiwini Oe: etc.

[18:52] Apple MacKay: even performance

[18:52] Kiwini Oe: But my twitter displays

[18:52] Kiwini Oe: will grab the last 10 tweets about Obama+Biden+Pelosi+Boehner+Congress etc

[18:52] Kiwini Oe: and have no real lag there

[18:53] Apple MacKay: nice

[18:53] Nasus Dumart: well - if ther are any more questions - please -

[18:53] Nasus Dumart: type them

[18:53] Nasus Dumart: or we will begin to wrap this up

[18:54] Nasus Dumart: and get Apple busy editing the script

[18:54] Nasus Dumart: lol

[18:54] Kiwini Oe: Sorry for the foo midstream - I was changing computers

[18:54] Apple MacKay can't wait

[18:54] Kiwini Oe: and typing styles, too

[18:54] Apple MacKay: np

[18:54] Mia Kitchensink: It was a great talk.

[18:54] Nasus Dumart: well, thank you, Kiwini!

[18:54] Aderit Dorn: Thanks for your thoughts

[18:54] Kiwini Oe: Thanks, Mia

[18:54] Aderit Dorn: very interesting

[18:54] Kiwini Oe: Thanks Nasus, Aderit

[18:54] Aderit Dorn: nice to hear the history too

[18:54] Mia Kitchensink: Yes

[18:54] Nasus Dumart: this was a very interesting chat!

[18:55] Kiwini Oe: I usually blog about these things

[18:55] Nasus Dumart: please, share your blog link

[18:55] Kiwini Oe: on http://www.clearnightsky.com

[18:55] Nasus Dumart: and other links you'd like

[18:55] Kiwini Oe: and I'm @Steven_Nelson on Twitter

[18:55] Nasus Dumart: Thanks aggain!

[18:55] Apple MacKay: Thank You Kiwini

[18:55] Kiwini Oe: and http://slurl.com/secondlife/Clear%20Ink%20Island////

[18:56] Nasus Dumart: ♪♫♥ Cheers!! ♥♫♪

[18:56] Kiwini Oe: Thanks - and I'll be seeing you around.

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