Aargle Zymurgy - The Business of Play - chat log

[18:08]  Nasus Dumart: Tonight, we present one of the most successful entrepreneurs in Second Life, Aargle Zymurgy.
[18:08]  Apple MacKay: the intros are long
[18:08]  Nasus Dumart: Aargle is a game developer and 'Dot-Com' era veteran.
[18:09]  Nasus Dumart: He came into Second Life in January 2007 to do exactly what he accomplished.
[18:09]  Nasus Dumart: He successfully built and sold games, lots and lots of games.
[18:09]  Nasus Dumart: Aargle's most popular game is Zyngo, which can be found most anywhere you see a leisurely gathering of avatars.
[18:09]  Nasus Dumart: Aargle's games are popular because they are well made, original and relatively affordable.
[18:09]  Nasus Dumart: Venue owners buy Aargle's games because they can generate traffic and income by having them on their land.
[18:09]  Nasus Dumart: Residents flock to the games because they are challenging and interactive.
[18:10]  Nasus Dumart: Hitting the nail on the proverbial head when it comes to success in Second Life does not usually happen overnight, but for Aargle, success came when he launched the right virtual product at the right time.
[18:10]  Nasus Dumart: Success came quickly, barely giving him time to celebrate his million L$ milestone.
[18:10]  Nasus Dumart: Then, in October, 2007, the gaming ban happened.
[18:10]  Nasus Dumart: All sales of games abruptly stopped when Linden Lab was forced to comply with government regulators and online gambling laws, which banned games in SL™.
[18:10]  Nasus Dumart: Rather than close up his shop and leave, as many casinos and clubs did, Aargle investigated the matter further.
[18:11]  Nasus Dumart: Aargle found that there is a definitive difference between games of chance and games of skill.
[18:11]  Nasus Dumart: For instance, we used to enjoy playing 'Sploder', where anyone can continually add L$ to a till, until an automatic countdown to an explosion, distributing L$ to participants.
[18:11]  Nasus Dumart: How much L$ participants received was random.
[18:11]  Nasus Dumart: That was a game of chance.
[18:11]  Nasus Dumart: Chess, backgammon and Zyngo, however, are games of skill and remain perfectly legal.
[18:11]  Nasus Dumart: By clearly demonstrating this to LL™, Aargle was able to convince them to reinstate certain gaming in SL™.
[18:11]  Buffy Beale: nice!
[18:12]  Nasus Dumart: This is possible, of course, as long as the games remain within the legal criteria. This saved his business and the business of countless others.
[18:12]  Nasus Dumart: Let me just remind the audience of the structure of this event.
[18:12]  Nasus Dumart: This will be a type-chat event so that we can post the transcript on http://Molaskeys-Pub.com immediately following the program.
[18:12]  Nasus Dumart: I will ask the audience to refrain from irrelevant room chat until your host and Lecturer have completed their presentations.
[18:12]  Nasus Dumart: At that time, the audience will be encouraged to participate in a lively period of Questions and Answers.
[18:12]  Nasus Dumart: TIP: prepare your questions on a note card and then copy and paste them into chat at the appropriate time.
[18:13]  Nasus Dumart: Please use this time to invite others to join you. You may offer this SLurl™ as a landing spot - http://tiny.cc/XPgAi
[18:13]  Nasus Dumart: If you are taking any snapshots of tonight's event, please share them with the Molaskey's Pub Group on Flickr at http://tiny.cc/AULDo
[18:13]  Nasus Dumart: OK, Let's continue...
[18:13]  Nasus Dumart: We featured Aargle Zymurgy in our book, 'The Unofficial Guide to Building Your Business in the Second Life Virtual World', because of the story about the online gaming industry and the impact it has on life in SL™, but Aargle gives due credit to his friends and associates for his amazing success
[18:13]  Nasus Dumart: Rather than standing on his own, Aargle works with other talented game makers and business owners.
[18:14]  Nasus Dumart: They look out for one another for possible rip-offs, they brainstorm ideas, etc.
[18:14]  Nasus Dumart: Together, they drive the online gaming industry in SL™,
[18:14]  Nasus Dumart: When I approached Aargle to appear on the Guest Lecture Series, I expected we would discuss his experience as I pointed out, but he also began to mention the subjects of security and cloning, so I think Aargle has more in mind to share with you.
[18:14]  Nasus Dumart: Please welcome wildly successful SL™ game maker and understated gaming industry super hero, Aargle Zymurgy.
[18:14]  Nasus Dumart: (Big Applause)
[18:14]  Sheet Spotter: Woohoo!
[18:14]  Aargle Zymurgy bows
[18:14]  Sheet Spotter: .-'`'-. APPLAUSE APPLAUSE .-'`'-.
[18:14]  Nasus Dumart: ♪♫♥ Cheers!! ♥♫♪
[18:14]  Apple MacKay: nice
[18:14]  Brianna Beresford: claps
[18:14]  Buffy Beale: claps madly!!!

[18:15]  Aargle Zymurgy: ok, this should be a mellow sort of meeting.
[18:15]  Aargle Zymurgy: I've actually got the stream turned on here to set my own town.
[18:15]  Aargle Zymurgy: *tone
[18:15]  Aargle Zymurgy: so, to repeat my copy/paste from earlier......
[18:15]  Aargle Zymurgy: When Nasus asked me to discuss something today, the obvious thing to discuss was gaming. It's a subject near and dear to my heart. It's how I make my living and where my reputation lies.
[18:15]  Aargle Zymurgy: However, not everyone is into gaming, so I settled on something I hope amounts to more universal appeal.
[18:16]  Aargle Zymurgy: I'm under the general impression that these meetings are for content creators or people who care about content creation in SL, so the subject is "content theft"
[18:16]  Aargle Zymurgy: or... to broaden the issue... people who care about how the whole system runs and grows.
[18:16]  Aargle Zymurgy: When I arrived in SL, even as a noob, I knew that if you could see it, you could copy it. That last point was made to me a few months ago by a Linden friend.
[18:17]  Aargle Zymurgy: Clothing, skins, shapes, builds, etc. These can all be copied at whim. OK, not totally at whim; to get images, there are some software tools you must have to save the images. But those are readily available on the web.
[18:17]  Aargle Zymurgy: Thankfully, most people in SL recognize the issues with such copying. I have 3-4 friends who have obtained "master copies" of their skins for the primary purpose of adding a tattoo that isn't removed by any clothing.
[18:17]  Aargle Zymurgy: From a legal perspective, this actually falls into "fair use" of the images. These friends I mention are appalled at the notion that they might sell or give those skins to someone else. And so, good attitudes prevail.
[18:17]  Nasus Dumart nods
[18:17]  Aargle Zymurgy: However, the occasional crook surfaces. One major skin creator had her skins copied and the thieves set up a store to sell the clones.
[18:18]  Aargle Zymurgy: I learned by way of reliable rumor, it was the most heavily reported store in SL history. All the loyal customers descended on the store and shut it down.
[18:18]  Aargle Zymurgy: So, clothing and textured builds are subject to theft and resale. Honesty and loyalty of customers sometimes save the day.... but not always.
[18:18]  Aargle Zymurgy: oh... this isn't in my original notes....
[18:18]  Nasus Dumart smiles
[18:18]  Aargle Zymurgy: but I was at SLCC last september....
[18:19]  Aargle Zymurgy: easily the best forum was one that included Alicia Stella.
[18:19]  Aargle Zymurgy: I see her name in a lot of profiles... typicaly just below "Aargle Zymurgy Systems" :-)
[18:19]  Aargle Zymurgy: anyways, she did a speech on copyrights and trademarks.
[18:20]  Aargle Zymurgy: it was fantastic and I would encourage this group to invite her ... if you haven't done so already.
[18:20]  Aargle Zymurgy: to continue:
[18:20]  Aargle Zymurgy: How about animations? Those can be be copied and resold, too. It takes making a custom SL client to do it, but it can be done.
[18:20]  Aargle Zymurgy: For animations, the Lindens could potentially close the door on this exploit. Let me give a brief summary of the problem:
[18:20]  Aargle Zymurgy: Animations are sent to SL from creators as a BVH file... a standard animation file. When avatars are animated, the BVH file is returned to the clients in the area, those are converted to local animations and played.
[18:20]  Aargle Zymurgy: (BVH files are industry standard animation files)
[18:21]  Nasus Dumart nods
[18:21]  Aargle Zymurgy: Had the Lindens thought like crooks (sadly, they didn't), a proprietary animation would be sent to the clients. In fact, the BVH files become proprietary animations in the SL client.. but since it is AFTER getting the BVH file, it can be copied.
[18:21]  Aargle Zymurgy: in all, SL was created by a group of honest people who didn't know how big their creation would get, nor how unsecure it was.
[18:22]  Aargle Zymurgy: perhaps, if the problems were known in advance, SL might not have existed. one must wonder. :-)
[18:22]  Nasus Dumart nods
[18:22]  Aargle Zymurgy: sooo........
[18:22]  Aargle Zymurgy: The one thing left you can make in SL that can't be stolen is a scripted item.
[18:22]  Aargle Zymurgy takes a long breath
[18:22]  Nasus Dumart: :)
[18:22]  Aargle Zymurgy: Maybe
[18:23]  Aargle Zymurgy: I make games. I write the scripts that make them go. The actual graphics, prims and sounds are pointless without the scripts. Unlike a clothing manufacturer, I worry little about my textures copied.
[18:23]  Aargle Zymurgy: Two years ago, my business partner, Lamorna, once commented "I like making software. it's like prostitution. You sell it, but you've still got it to sell again."
[18:23]  Nasus Dumart laughs
[18:23]  Aargle Zymurgy: And in SL, we had the confidence that, if we marked an object and its scripts "no copy," then, by golly, you couldn't make copies.
[18:23]  Aargle Zymurgy: We were SO naive.
[18:24]  Aargle Zymurgy: My customers (and many to this day) had trouble believing this was possible.
[18:24]  Nasus Dumart: hmmmmm
[18:24]  Aargle Zymurgy: "But it has you as creator and it is no-copy. It MUST be ok," they would say.
[18:24]  Aargle Zymurgy: A few of you here might have heard the rumors. Maybe believed. Maybe didn't. I can tell you for a fact that no-copy items can be copied; No transfer items can be transferred.
[18:24]  Aargle Zymurgy: Does this suck for content creators? Damn straight it does.
[18:24]  Nasus Dumart opens eyes wide
[18:24]  Aargle Zymurgy: For you skeptics out there, let me explain:
[18:25]  Aargle Zymurgy: Rez a no-copy item. Let us assume something expensive, like one of my games or one of those entertaining beds. :-)
[18:25]  Aargle Zymurgy: But, sadly, the person you met last month that you fell in love with and shared your sim, your life, and most importantly... your edit permissions with.......
[18:25]  Aargle Zymurgy: that person turns out to be a psycho. Your former love freaks out and totally trashes your sim.
[18:25]  Aargle Zymurgy: (By the way, I am citing an actual event. This isn't speculation.)
[18:25]  Nasus Dumart: :0
[18:25]  Aargle Zymurgy: You call concierge. "help! 2 months of sim building down the drain! Can you roll back my sim?"
[18:26]  Aargle Zymurgy: Concierge obliges and the sim is rolled back.
[18:26]  Aargle Zymurgy: Suddently, you notice in your lost and found: spare copies of a lot of no-copy items. Wow! How did those get there?
[18:26]  Aargle Zymurgy: If you're one of my customers (one with a slow conscience) you think, "hey! maybe I can get MORE copies."
[18:26]  Aargle Zymurgy: And to cite another real example, you bought 80 no-copy objects. Now you have 160. Repeat 2 more times and you have 640 items.
[18:27]  Aargle Zymurgy: Then you hang out a "for sale cheap" sign and sell your extra objects.
[18:27]  Aargle Zymurgy: My two stories above (the "psycho-ex" and the "opportunist") are true. They describe situations where no-copy items got copied.
[18:27]  Aargle Zymurgy: Stop and think for just a moment: these people made NO original attempts to duplicate objects and got duplicates anyways.
[18:27]  Aargle Zymurgy: What happens if people put their minds to making copies?
[18:27]  Aargle Zymurgy: Since Aug 2008, I have personally found and reported 3 different ways to make copies of no-copy objects.
[18:28]  Nasus Dumart: wow
[18:28]  Aargle Zymurgy: that's just me. there were others that friends of mine found.
[18:28]  Aargle Zymurgy: yes... some of those rushed server updates in SL, you can blame them directlly on me.
[18:28]  Aargle Zymurgy: I also found a bug that allowed making full-perm boxes of items that were both no-copy and no-transfer.
[18:28]  Nasus Dumart: :)
[18:29]  Aargle Zymurgy: to be honest, The last 9 months have been hell for me as a developer of a popular product.
[18:29]  Nasus Dumart: I bet
[18:29]  Aargle Zymurgy: For all you developers here, I wish two conflicting things: 1) that your work is popular enough to be worth the effort of stealing, and 2) that your work isn't stolen.
[18:29]  Aargle Zymurgy: That ends the first portion of this discussion. The second portion will consist of solutions, both potential and actual.
[18:29]  Nasus Dumart nods
[18:29]  Aargle Zymurgy: I'm going to take a break for a moment and open the floor for questions and discussion.
[18:30]  Nasus Dumart: great idea
[18:30]  Aargle Zymurgy: If the questions relate to solutions, I am going to decline to answer. Please save those questions for the end of the second portion of this session.
[18:30]  Nasus Dumart: That was quite a bit of information - giving us lots to think about
[18:30]  Buffy Beale: /Question: what is the penality if someone is caught, can they be sued in RL?
[18:30]  Aargle Zymurgy: so, questions? anyone? anyone? Beuler?
[18:31]  Aargle Zymurgy: Buffy, yes.... in fact, one of the more egregious cloners had payment info on file.
[18:31]  Aargle Zymurgy: I have have lawyer. I'm just trying to decide if the cost of the suit is worth it.
[18:31]  Buffy Beale: thx
[18:31]  Apple MacKay: Question do you feel this climate has stiffled development in SL?
[18:31]  Aargle Zymurgy: and, the RL penalty has been banning.
[18:31]  Brianna Beresford: I dont understand how giving someone edit prifiledges is risky
[18:32]  Buffy Beale: perhaps it will take something like that to stop some peeps
[18:32]  Aargle Zymurgy: ok, Apple first....
[18:32]  Aargle Zymurgy: from MY perspective, I think it HAS stifled development.
[18:33]  Aargle Zymurgy: one of my competitors sent me an IM one day that basically said, "everything I've done has been cloned... help yourself to whatever ofmy ideas you want, I give up."
[18:33]  Aargle Zymurgy: it was the saddest IM I think I ever got.
[18:33]  Nasus Dumart: wow.
[18:33]  Dusty Artaud: What about abuse across border? LL operates under U.S. and California laws doesn't it?
[18:33]  Nasus Dumart: Wrong seat, Spyke
[18:34]  Spyke Zinner: sorry
[18:34]  Spyke Zinner: lol :)
[18:34]  Sheet Spotter: Question: Do you feel LL has been responsive to your concerns?
[18:34]  Nasus Dumart: np
[18:34]  Aargle Zymurgy: and from my perspective, I've spent hundreds of hours in tracking clones and filing DMCA reports. all that time could have been spent improving things in SL
[18:34]  Aargle Zymurgy: back to Brianna....
[18:34]  Aargle Zymurgy: with edit privliege granted to another, they can do nearly everything to your things that you can....
[18:34]  Brianna Beresford: oh I thought they could just move them
[18:34]  Aargle Zymurgy: including deleting.
[18:34]  Nasus Dumart: wow.
[18:34]  Aargle Zymurgy: there is very little you can't do.
[18:35]  Brianna Beresford looks at her friends list and is gonna start removing those priviledges now
[18:35]  Aargle Zymurgy: I am routinely granted edit rigths for others to help them.....
[18:35]  Aargle Zymurgy: but people have already trusted me with debit permissions. :-)
[18:35]  Aargle Zymurgy: if they can trust me with their money, then objects become easy. :-)
[18:35]  Dedric Mauriac: is there a way to allow coworkers to view/edit my scripts when i give them edit permissions on my objects?
[18:36]  Aargle Zymurgy: working back to Dusty.....
18:36]  Aargle Zymurgy: yes, california law prevails. since I am in the USA, I DO have some advantage over europeans.
[18:36]  Aargle Zymurgy: fortunately for Lamorna (in england) she's got me to help.
[18:36]  Aargle Zymurgy: lessee... SHeet's question
[18:36]  Spyke Zinner: well Aargle let me ask your intention of giving mod rights to your customers seems a bad idea to me, is that only for beeing helpfull?
[18:37]  Aargle Zymurgy: Sheet, I think they have been helpful to a degree that is applaudable...
[18:37]  Aargle Zymurgy: that is to say, I think they have bent over backwards in some instances to help developers (not just me)
[18:37]  Aargle Zymurgy: but...
[18:37]  Aargle Zymurgy: they are hamstrung by certain problems inherent to SL itself.
[18:38]  Aargle Zymurgy: Spyke... ugh... mod rights.
[18:38]  Aargle Zymurgy: yes, I've had that idea proposed several times.
[18:38]  Aargle Zymurgy: I HAVE done that.
[18:38]  Aargle Zymurgy: my original version of Pipz was no-mod.... it was a complete, 100% total disaster
[18:39]  Spyke Zinner: sorry :)
[18:39]  Aargle Zymurgy: had I done the same with Zyngo, it wouldn't have been cloned because nobody would have wanted it.
[18:39]  Aargle Zymurgy: oh, don't apologize. it seemed like a good idea to me at the time, too.
[18:39]  Aargle Zymurgy: I'm often asked "why don't you make it no-copy/no-transfer"
[18:39]  Aargle Zymurgy: this comes from people who never tried to do it. :-)
[18:40]  Aargle Zymurgy: it cannot be done, and if you read the jira comments on the subject, it's very foolishly opposed by a lot of people.
[18:40]  Aargle Zymurgy: can you all give me one moment... RL calls me for about 2 minutes.
[18:41]  Nasus Dumart: ok
[18:41]  Nasus Dumart: np
[18:41]  Spyke Zinner: sure :)
[18:41]  pally Nakamura he needs to pee lol
[18:41]  Nasus Dumart: if this were television, it would be a commercial break ;)
[18:41]  Apple MacKay: shhh
[18:41]  Apple MacKay: lol
[18:41]  Apple MacKay: I'll edit that out of the transcript
[18:41]  Nasus Dumart: lol - good
[18:42]  pally Nakamura or boil a egg
[18:42]  Nasus Dumart: though - it IS funny ~
[18:42]  Apple MacKay is giggling
[18:42]  Buffy Beale: haha yes it is
[18:42]  Dedric Mauriac starts singing the fish-heads jingle
[18:42]  Buffy Beale: group bio break
[18:42]  Aargle Zymurgy: now a word from our sponsors.
[18:42]  Nasus Dumart laughs
[18:42]  Aargle Zymurgy: and I'm back. sorry about that
[18:42]  Thorson Helgerud: leave it in then.. a nice break in a pretty serious lecture..
[18:42]  Nasus Dumart: ok - let's resume
[18:42]  Apple MacKay: ok
[18:42]  Aargle Zymurgy: maybe an ad for zyngo. :-)
[18:43]  Nasus Dumart: ;)
[18:43]  Apple MacKay: or Molaskeys Pub!
[18:43]  Aargle Zymurgy: OK, I think it's time to move on. I know there are questions unanswered, but SL awaits us.
[18:43]  Aargle Zymurgy: hm.. hopefully I wont' get technical....
[18:43]  Apple MacKay: its ok
[18:43]  Aargle Zymurgy: and I hope people know what UIDs are.
[18:43]  Aargle Zymurgy: Potential solution #1: LL could have made rezzed objects retain their UID. It's a flaw none of us will see fixed. If this was possible, cloning wouldn't be.
[18:43]  Apple MacKay: UUID's
[18:44]  Aargle Zymurgy: yes... everything in SL ... all we see..all images, all scripts, everyting... including us, gets a GUID/UUID (Universaly/Globally Unique ID)
[18:44]  Aargle Zymurgy: I have discussed this at length with the Lindens. Simple solutions based on fixed UIDs are not possible.
[18:44]  Aargle Zymurgy: my favorite meetings were CG Lindens meetings.
[18:44]  Aargle Zymurgy: he was more frank with us than most.
[18:45]  Aargle Zymurgy: but a big frustration for him was people saying "why don't you just...." followed by a simplistic suggestion that didn't meet with complex reality
[18:46]  Aargle Zymurgy: but that solution of retaining UIDs would require .... well.... what amounts to serious heart, lung and brain surgery...
[18:46]  Dedric Mauriac: too bad they don't have UUID mapping
[18:46]  Aargle Zymurgy: with the expectation that the patient was to run a marathon the next day
[18:46]  Nasus Dumart nods
[18:47]  Nasus Dumart: great analogy
[18:47]  Aargle Zymurgy: potential solution #2: Let's talk license scripts. I have tried (as have others) to make no-copy licenses for objects
[18:47]  Aargle Zymurgy: have magic license scripts to protect thigns.
[18:47]  Aargle Zymurgy: it's a wonderful idea..... but if you can copy no-copy objects, and the scripts in them... you've lost
[18:47]  Aargle Zymurgy: this is a failure... copies are copies..... we developers can't fix that.
[18:48]  Aargle Zymurgy: I will repeat myself: you have a no-copy object in-world. You take it to inventory just as the sim re-starts. Now the object is in-world and in your inventory. Which is the original?
[18:48]  Aargle Zymurgy: This really is a situation that can't continue, and it can't be fixed. The problems are far too fundamental in SL. There are a lot of "if only" subjects that can be raised, but won't really help us.
[18:48]  Aargle Zymurgy: My business partners and I had enough and found our own solution.
[18:48]  Aargle Zymurgy: so, now to the real solution:
[18:49]  Aargle Zymurgy: external licensing.
[18:49]  Dedric Mauriac: (drum roll)
[18:49]  Aargle Zymurgy: we aren the first to try this....
[18:49]  Aargle Zymurgy: LOL
[18:49]  Aargle Zymurgy: but we're thorough.
[18:49]  Apple MacKay: php with a SQL database externally?
[18:49]  Aargle Zymurgy: Lamorna Proctor and I worked up what we call our SlySense tecnology
[18:50]  Apple MacKay: make it phone home to run!
[18:50]  Aargle Zymurgy: no php. we're actuall more comfortable with MS products. SQL server on a badass system.
[18:50]  Aargle Zymurgy: Apple, exactly
[18:50]  Aargle Zymurgy: we assign X number of license to an owner.
[18:50]  Aargle Zymurgy: we can give them double that number...
[18:50]  Aargle Zymurgy: it won't matter.
[18:51]  Aargle Zymurgy: they can rez all they like, but only use the licenses we give them.
[18:51]  Aargle Zymurgy: so, ET phones home, and all is good.
[18:51]  Nasus Dumart: wow - smart
[18:51]  Apple MacKay: solves so many issues
[18:51]  Aargle Zymurgy: if someone clones an object, the 2nd one won't work.
[18:51]  Aargle Zymurgy: it's as simple as that.
[18:52]  Dedric Mauriac: active concurrent seat licensing scheme...
[18:52]  Aargle Zymurgy: precisely.
[18:52]  Apple MacKay: is your current plan to license this technology?
[18:52]  Aargle Zymurgy: yes... it's already applied to Kain Cleaver's Deal game.
[18:52]  Aargle Zymurgy: I've had some brief talks with others.
[18:53]  Aargle Zymurgy: we have worked some cooperation with the Lindens....
[18:53]  Aargle Zymurgy: we supply them with "observer" access to our records.
[18:53]  Aargle Zymurgy: people who attempt clones come to our attention, that in turn goes to the g-team.
[18:54]  Aargle Zymurgy: our records are essentially an audit of the existing LL records and they can remove offenders
[18:54]  Apple MacKay: do you think they could use this on a larger level like maybe similar to the app storre on uphones... all app devs submit to 1 location to be approved?
[18:54]  Aargle Zymurgy: yes, definitely
[18:54]  Apple MacKay: *Iphones
[18:54]  Aargle Zymurgy: we designed things with scalability in mind when we created the DB and the in-world scritps.
[18:55]  Apple MacKay: scalability like how big?
[18:55]  Apple MacKay: how many records
[18:55]  Apple MacKay: Bigger then the current asset Db
[18:55]  Aargle Zymurgy: honestly, I'm going on my own track record wtih scripting/programming
[18:55]  Aargle Zymurgy: oh, good heavens, no... nothing THAT big is needed.
[18:56]  Apple MacKay: but
[18:56]  Apple MacKay: if we have a metaverse one day isn't it?
[18:56]  Apple MacKay: jk
[18:56]  Aargle Zymurgy: SlySense is intended to protect the higher-dollar products
[18:56]  Apple MacKay: it makes perfect sense
[18:57]  Aargle Zymurgy: frankly, we're targeting probably less than 1-2% of the market in SL.
[18:57]  Aargle Zymurgy: we can't protect clothing or skins.
[18:57]  Aargle Zymurgy: we CAN protect games, beds, um... you all know the popular toys. :-)
[18:58]  Aargle Zymurgy: but....
[18:58]  Aargle Zymurgy: let me back up a moment.
[18:58]  Aargle Zymurgy: at the moment, what I'm saying seems a bit developer lopsided
[18:58]  Aargle Zymurgy: today I was handed a Zyngo game from an owner.
[18:58]  Aargle Zymurgy: he said "here, try to rez this"
[18:58]  Aargle Zymurgy: wel, there it was in my inventory.
[18:58]  Aargle Zymurgy: I tried...
[18:59]  Aargle Zymurgy: and SL said it didn't exist.
[18:59]  Aargle Zymurgy: I passed it to Lamorna, she coudn't rez it either.
[18:59]  Aargle Zymurgy: so I checked our database... one of his games was offline.
[18:59]  Aargle Zymurgy: it was that one.
[18:59]  Aargle Zymurgy: SL killed it.
[19:00]  Sheet Spotter: I believe your inventory list is stored seperately from the actual object it describes.
[19:00]  Aargle Zymurgy: I issued him a new license and he had his game back.
[19:00]  Aargle Zymurgy: Sheet, yes.
[19:00]  Aargle Zymurgy: but the point I'm making is, we not only stop cloning and that abuse... but we protect owners from loss.
[19:01]  Kool Oberlander: so you wrote earlier that you felt creativity was being stifled....do you have hope that this will reverse the trend?
[19:01]  Aargle Zymurgy: the only people who lose are the crooks.
[19:01]  Aargle Zymurgy: wow... yes... I DO think it will be reversed.
[19:01]  Aargle Zymurgy: I am, to a great extent, breathing a sigh of relief
[19:01]  Kool Oberlander: good
[19:01]  Nasus Dumart: :)
[19:01]  Aargle Zymurgy: I had tracking information in my old games that clued me to clones....
[19:01]  Aargle Zymurgy: but that didn't stop them.
[19:02]  Aargle Zymurgy: as the old ones are phased out, I'm now back on track with creation.
[19:02]  Aargle Zymurgy: there are features in SL.....
[19:02]  Aargle Zymurgy: OMG......
[19:02]  Sheet Spotter: Has LL expressed any interest in "buying" your approach? :-)
[19:02]  Aargle Zymurgy: I'm jumping on some of the new ones.
[19:02]  Kool Oberlander: excellent
[19:02]  Aargle Zymurgy: ooh... good question, Sheet.
[19:02]  Aargle Zymurgy: I'm going to decline to answer that, though.
[19:02]  Nasus Dumart: leaves us wondering...
[19:03]  Apple MacKay: he dodged that twice Sheet... did you see that?
[19:03]  Nasus Dumart: lol
[19:03]  Aargle Zymurgy: well, yes... mainly becuase I'm not sure myself.
[19:03]  Aargle Zymurgy: I'm going to publicly admit that what we are doing is new.
[19:03]  Kool Oberlander: or maybe LL is going let the market decide?
[19:03]  Buffy Beale: For the licensing, is it possible to drag an item to put in a box content without rezzing, then person buys the box and rezzes it from their inventory and they get dinged?
[19:04]  Aargle Zymurgy: Buffy, let me give you a scenario....
[19:04]  Aargle Zymurgy: you have the right idea... so let me flesh it out.
[19:04]  Buffy Beale: k ty
[19:04]  Aargle Zymurgy: let me pick on ... um... Sheet.
[19:04]  Aargle Zymurgy: let's say he's a bad guy
[19:04]  Aargle Zymurgy: he clones one of my items.
[19:04]  Mia Kitchensink: ;D
[19:04]  Aargle Zymurgy: ( I like SHeet... I hope he doesn't mind me picking on him)
[19:05]  Nasus Dumart: :)
[19:05]  Nasus Dumart: he can take it
[19:05]  Aargle Zymurgy: and the bad boy he is, he sells it to you, Buffy.
[19:05]  Nasus Dumart: Bad Sheet!
[19:05]  Aargle Zymurgy: ok, you rez that object he cloned and boxed and it's not licensed.
[19:05]  Grateful Stryker is Online
[19:05]  Aargle Zymurgy: it won't work.
[19:05]  Buffy Beale: so its me that loses the L's I paid
[19:06]  Aargle Zymurgy: so, you come to me, the creator, and say "hey! this dude sold me a game and it won't work"
[19:06]  Aargle Zymurgy: I check my DB and find there are 2 copies of that licensed game.
[19:06]  Buffy Beale: nicely of course
[19:06]  Aargle Zymurgy: bang....
[19:06]  Aargle Zymurgy: I shut him down
[19:06]  Aargle Zymurgy: transfer the license to you....
[19:06]  Aargle Zymurgy: point X Linden to our website with clone activties and file an AR.
[19:07]  Buffy Beale: ok, understand now ty, it's not quite automated but close
[19:07]  Aargle Zymurgy: next thin you know, you ahve a proper game, Sheet's kicked out of SL and life goes on.
[19:07]  Kool Oberlander: so does that mean we'll be looking for a certain brand or a code to let us know that it isn't a clone
[19:07]  Aargle Zymurgy: well, 99% of the time, transfers and sales just happen
[19:08]  Aargle Zymurgy: catching, fixing, and removing the crooks is a small affair
[19:08]  Apple MacKay: be nice to be able to look up a serrial # or UUID of the game unique to your system I mean
[19:08]  Aargle Zymurgy: and when the word is out that something has a SlySense protection on it (we hope) the bad guys go away.
[19:08]  Aargle Zymurgy: well, Apple, yes.. that's the idea
[19:08]  Nasus Dumart nods
[19:08]  Apple MacKay: as an owner it'd show the state of the object as for sale
[19:08]  Apple MacKay: ;)
[19:08]  Aargle Zymurgy: incidentally, we are not the only people doing this.
[19:09]  Aargle Zymurgy: we're just the only ones marketing the protection
[19:09]  Sheet Spotter: Just the only ones doing it well? :-)
[19:09]  Aargle Zymurgy: one other game development group uses something similar and it works quite well.
[19:09]  Aargle Zymurgy: LOL... thank you for the confidence, Sheet.
[19:10]  Apple MacKay: will you be at SLCC again this year?
[19:10]  Aargle Zymurgy: btw... the others doing similar are friends of mine. I love them dearly, so don't expect to hear me utter a bad word. :-)
[19:10]  Aargle Zymurgy: Apple, YES!
[19:10]  Nasus Dumart: :) Great! We'll meet again!
[19:10]  Nasus Dumart: at the SLCC
[19:10]  Aargle Zymurgy: I'd tell you I'm signed up already, but I procrastinated. :-/
[19:10]  Apple MacKay: Did you now Hiro is running the business track
[19:10]  Apple MacKay: this would make a great panel
[19:10]  Buffy Beale: Aargle I'm also interested in your educational online game do you have a link where I can check it out?
[19:10]  Nasus Dumart: do you remember when I introduced myself to you at the SLCC in Tampa?
[19:11]  Aargle Zymurgy blushes
[19:11]  JueL Resistance is Online
[19:11]  Nasus Dumart: hahaha
[19:11]  Nasus Dumart: i'll take that as a 'no'
[19:11]  Aargle Zymurgy: Nasus, I met so many cool people there... and quite often under the alcafluence of incahol
[19:11]  Nasus Dumart: I know
[19:11]  Nasus Dumart: ;)
[19:11]  Apple MacKay: heh
[19:12]  Nasus Dumart: btw - it was about 11 am at the time
[19:12]  Nasus Dumart: lol
[19:12]  Nasus Dumart: Coral!
[19:12]  Aargle Zymurgy: 11am? hm.. the I was under the influence of caffeine
[19:12]  Nasus Dumart: you were with Aargle when I introduced myself at the SLCC Tampa - do you recall?
[19:12]  Coral Gausman: Hi :)
[19:12]  Coral Gausman: yes
[19:12]  Nasus Dumart: :)
[19:13]  Aargle Zymurgy: another game developer... say hi to Coral everyone.
[19:13]  Mia Kitchensink: hi
[19:13]  Buffy Beale: hi there
[19:13]  Coral Gausman: Hi Everyone :)
[19:13]  Spyke Zinner: and hi
[19:13]  Apple MacKay waves
[19:13]  Nasus Dumart: gtsy Coral
[19:13]  Sheet Spotter: G'day eh!
[19:14]  Nasus Dumart: this has been a fantastic topic
[19:14]  Buffy Beale: So Aargle, could Lindens allow for a hidden script which would self-del the object, would that help at all?
[19:14]  Buffy Beale: yes
[19:14]  Aargle Zymurgy: anyways we're pasty my 85% point......
[19:14]  Aargle Zymurgy: so... ok, Buffy
[19:14]  Aargle Zymurgy: the lindens don't need to allow it...
[19:14]  Aargle Zymurgy: I can just do it.
[19:14]  Aargle Zymurgy: however, I have a moral aversion to back-doors.
[19:14]  Nasus Dumart laughs
[19:14]  Buffy Beale: smart cookie, why dont they just use it?
[19:14]  Aargle Zymurgy: with our current games, the licensing makes it clear that we will stop games where owners are cheating.
[19:15]  Aargle Zymurgy: it has happened once since we started.
[19:15]  Aargle Zymurgy: Lamorna stopped all games from an owner who wouldn't pay prizes
[19:15]  Aargle Zymurgy: he paid up... we re-instated him.
[19:16]  Nasus Dumart: This has been one of the most interesting Lectures we have had the priviledge of hosting. Let's give Aargle a big round of applause ~
[19:16]  Nasus Dumart: ♪♫♥ Cheers!! ♥♫♪
[19:16]  Buffy Beale: Claps madly!!!
[19:16]  Aargle Zymurgy: thank you Nasus.
[19:16]  Coral Gausman: /clap
[19:16]  Aargle Zymurgy: hey...
[19:16]  Mia Kitchensink: ♪♫♥ Applauds!!! ♥♫♪
[19:16]  Aargle Zymurgy: a plug for your book
[19:16]  Apple MacKay: Really great chat Aargle
[19:16]  Kool Oberlander: thank you!
[19:16]  Dusty Artaud: thank you!
[19:16]  Buffy Beale: Aargle do you have links to your educational online gaming site?
[19:16]  Aargle Zymurgy: I got my notice from Amazon that the book is on the way
[19:16]  Nasus Dumart: Aargle thank you for a great subject and for being so well prepared
[19:16]  Aargle Zymurgy: Buffy, I don't have links.
[19:17]  Anaid Daviau:  ✶.¸¸.·`★ .-'`'-.APPLAUSE .-'`'-. ★´·.¸¸.✶
[19:17]  Aargle Zymurgy: my educational software I keep seperate from SL.
[19:17]  Nasus Dumart: Yay! I hope you enjoy reading it!
[19:17]  Mia Kitchensink: It is a good book
[19:17]  Aargle Zymurgy: and.. to be honest, I am turning my code over to others.
[19:17]  Nasus Dumart: and if you do, write a review on Amazon - let everyone know!
[19:17]  Aargle Zymurgy: SL is far more fun.
[19:17]  Buffy Beale: do you have a web site for it, my nonprofit uses online training and I'd like to check out yours
[19:18]  Aargle Zymurgy: Buffy, my RL stuff targets K-8. we can talk privately as necessary
[19:18]  Buffy Beale: k, ty
[19:18]  Nasus Dumart: I want to know about that, too, Aargle - I never did ask you about it
[19:18]  Nasus Dumart: I have kids, ya know -
[19:18]  Nasus Dumart: I want to know if they're using your stuff
[19:18]  Aargle Zymurgy: LOL, ok... ask me privately.
[19:19]  Nasus Dumart: yes - will do
[19:19]  Aargle Zymurgy: they just might be.
[19:19]  Nasus Dumart: Alright
[19:19]  Aargle Zymurgy: final note
[19:19]  Nasus Dumart: thanks to everyone for coming tonight
[19:19]  Aargle Zymurgy: I love to program....
[19:19]  Nasus Dumart: Drinks in the Pub if you are interested
[19:19]  Aargle Zymurgy: I like making things for SL.
[19:19]  Buffy Beale: Thanks for hosting, so intereswting
[19:19]  Nasus Dumart: ;)
[19:19]  Mia Kitchensink: Thats good.
[19:20]  Aargle Zymurgy: I'm one of the few developers coming to SL with a solid professional background in computer science and programming
[19:20]  Buffy Beale: Aargle do you do special requests or just your own stuff?
[19:20]  Aargle Zymurgy: I hope ....
[19:20]  Aargle Zymurgy: I seriously hope...
[19:20]  Aargle Zymurgy: that what I do makes SL a better place....
[19:20]  Aargle Zymurgy: a more fun place....
[19:20]  Mia Kitchensink: it does for me
[19:20]  Buffy Beale: me too
[19:20]  Aargle Zymurgy: and... well.... heh... this is my 2nd home in so many ways.
[19:21]  Nasus Dumart: :)
[19:21]  Aargle Zymurgy: and I apprecaite you giving me some time to address some serious issues.

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